"It
is absolutely urgent that we begin calculating
the cost of climate change"
An interview with Norman Myers
Nearly everywhere in the world oil
and coal are heavily subsidised by governments.
There is no economic justification for the subsidies.
Repeated attempts to hike costs to reflect the
real cost of fossil fuels has been stymied by
governments. But the burden of climate change
will force governments to remove the subsidies,
says Norman Myers, a Visiting Fellow at Green
College, Oxford University
GSI: You have argued that certain government subsidies
are making the problem of climate change worse.
What is the connection?
Norman Myers (NM): We know that about 50 percent
of climate change is due to the burning of fossil
fuels, and the problem is we have long been encouraged
to burn these fuels, almost with abandon, because
of subsidies. This made sense when oil was first
being exploited at the beginning of the 20th Century,
when oil was proving to be a very fine lubricant
for the expansion of economies. Without these
subsidies to fossil fuels, the growth of industry
and transportation would not have been nearly
so great. But for a long time, I’d say at
least 80 years, there has been no economic reason
why oil and coal industries should be subsidised.
If governments were to slowly ratchet up the cost
of fossil fuels, so that the cost reflected the
full price, including the cost to the environment,
we would see much more conservation. This is why
I argue that it is absolutely urgent that we begin
calculating the cost of climate change, and pass
the cost on to the people who are doing the burning
and emitting.
GSI: If fossil fuel subsidies made sense
when countries were at an early stage of industrialisation,
does that mean that you make a special case for
developing countries?
NM: You could make a special case for very impoverished
countries, like Bangladesh. But India and China
have a lot of coal, and I don’t see any
reason to make an exception for them, even if
they are at an earlier stage of development. We
can see on our television screens as we watch
the Olympics the huge smog clouds over Beijing.
The number of people who die each year in China
because of air pollution is in the order of 400,000.
That’s a huge mortality rate, and the cost
should be built into the price of fossil fuels.
GSI: Your argument is that eliminating
fossil fuel subsidies would be a win-win situation.
Not only would we encourage conservation, but
we would also free up public money. Why, then,
do government’s persist in maintaining subsidies
for fossil fuels?
NM: That’s a good question. It really
is crazy that we subsidise the burning of fossil
fuels, even though this leads to trashing the
environment and undercutting our economies. Reducing
fossil fuel subsidies, for example, would help
boost the technology for more efficient, cleaner
car engines. So why do we tolerate this kind of
nonsense? Well, it’s partially inertia.
Fossil fuels play a very large role in our economies,
and to phase them out would cause a lot of disruptions.
However, it will not be nearly as difficult as
living in a world that has been subject to climate
change.
The other reason is the influence of lobbyists.
In Washington, for example, there are large numbers
of lobbyists who whisper in the ear of Congress
in order to keep subsidies to fossil fuels in
place. I believe that lobbyists are spending as
much as 250 million dollars a month in the United
States, much of which goes to lobbying on behalf
of the fossil fuels.
GSI: In your latest book, you describe
“institutional roadblocks” to tackling
problems such as perverse subsidies. In short,
you say that our institutions – whether
governmental, legal, media, or citizens’
groups - are not up to the task of addressing
the world’s most pressing challenges. How
does this concept apply to subsidies, and what
types of institutional reform could help us deal
with perverse subsidies?
When I go to the gas station to fill up my car,
I’m told to pay 4 dollars per gallon. But
when I put my economist’s hat on, I know
I should be paying another 4 dollars to cover
the cost of environmental harm and the other negative
externalities associated with burning gasoline.
Yet I can’t say to the attendant at the
gas station, here is your 4 dollars, but I want
to pay you another 4 dollars. I suppose I could
go home and write a cheque to the British Treasury,
but that doesn’t really work either. What
we have to do is engage in institutional reform.
Until the public as a whole says that they don’t
want artificially low prices for gasoline, but
rather want a fair price, meaning a price that
will look after the climate as well, we are not
going to get very far. We need institutions that
are powerful enough to persuade governments to
increase the cost of gasoline.
GSI: The recent collapse of the WTO’s
Doha round talks reveals just how hard it is to
achieve positive subsidy reform, even at a relatively
modest scale. Do you see any reason to be optimistic
that we will see reform of those subsidies that
are frustrating attempts to mitigate climate change?
NM: I do see reason for optimism. In the United
States, for instance, it used to be nearly impossible
for the government to raise the price of gasoline.
But during the last six months gasoline has increased
in price, and while people have grumbled and complained,
they haven’t marched in the streets, they
haven’t demonstrated on Capitol Hill. On
the whole, there seems to be a quiet message coming
out from the American people that yes, they will
put up with a steady, slow increase in the price
of gasoline. How far that will go, however, I’m
not sure. I don’t know what the tipping
point will be. But I believe that as energy prices
rise, and we become more conscious of the problems
associated with climate change, the more the public
will be willing to accept an increase in fuel
prices, provided that it is phased in over a lengthy
period of time.
Keep in mind that the money saved by not subsidising
fossil fuels can be spread to other parts of the
economy, so citizens do not need to lose out.
Were these subsidies to be phased out, that would
open up huge markets for super-efficient cars,
for public transportation, for anti-pollution
measures of many a sort, and for additional actions
to curb climate change. Moreover, the government
savings would enable major slashing of budget
deficits, big increases in funding for health
and education, and lots of other fine initiatives.
Norman Myers has served as an adviser to
many governments, international agencies and academic
bodies, including the United Nations, the World
Bank, and the White House. In 2001 he published
Perverse Subsidies, one of the most comprehensive
accounts of subsidies and the harm they can cause.
He is currently completing a new book called
How Institutions Block Our Road to Sustainability.
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