AN INTERVIEW WITH SAVATER: AS EUROPE BROADENS, IS SPAIN DIVIDING?

By Miren Gutierrez and - - Reprint | | Print |

This column is available for visitors to the IPS website only for reading. Reproduction in print or electronic media is prohibited. Media interested in republishing may contact romacol@ips.org.

ROME, Feb 29 2004 (IPS) - Fernando Savater is thrilled to be back in Rome, where he has the luxury of anonymity. The philosopher- activist director of the Basta Ya movement, which represents the victims of terrorism in the Basque Country, can\’t take a step in Spain without a security escort. A professor of history and the author of numerous books, he is in Rome to participate in the colloquium \’\’Europe: A Nation of States or a State of Nations\’\’. He agreed to speak with IPS about the prospects for the upcoming elections in Spain, which will be held 14 March, and the future of the Basque Country.

Fernando Savater is thrilled to be back in Rome, where he has the luxury of anonymity. The philosopher- activist director of the Basta Ya movement, which represents the victims of terrorism in the Basque Country, can’t take a step in Spain without a security escort. A professor of history and the author of numerous books, he is in Rome to participate in the colloquium ”Europe: A Nation of States or a State of Nations”. He agreed to speak with IPS about the prospects for the upcoming elections in Spain, which will be held 14 March, and the future of the Basque Country. What will the legacy be of the eight-year tenure of Spanish president Jose Maria Aznar? The fight against terrorism has produced excellent results. In other areas –education, labour, social guarantees– I’m not convinced. But the fight against terrorism has been very effective. The proof is that the number of people ETA kills each year has dropped from 100 to three, which are still too many of course. ETA has been dismantled. It is rotten with infiltrators, and its great operating strength has been blocked. In his dealings with Basque nationalists, instead of giving them wings Aznar has cut concessions. Nationalism in general is fed by the central government: the more concessions it is granted, the more its appetite grows. As for Aznar the man, his style is unappealing. He prefers imposition to collaboration. He could have won the support of the socialists by negotiating with them but instead preferred to impose his conditions. This was a mistake, because the socialists would have followed him otherwise. Economically the country is doing well, though not because of any merit of its policies; the government is riding a wave that it didn’t create. Do you find it excessive that Aznar has committed himself to a police solution to the so-called ”Basque conflict”. Various errors have been committed. One was to place the terrorists in the camp of the nationalists. That is where we find Carod-Rovira, who describes ETA as ”an independence organisation that is resorting to armed struggle”, almost as if it were a NGO. But another error was placing the nationalists in the terrorist camp, and calling Arzalluz the ”ETA chief”. Terrorists are criminals, and the body invented to deal with criminals is the police. No one asks a wife beater what sort of treatment he would prefer; before visiting a psychiatrist he goes before the judge. (Josep Lluis Carod-Rovira, leader of the Esquerra Republicana, recently resigned from his position in the Catalan government after admitting that he had meet in secret with ETA members. Xavier Arzalluz was until recently president of the Nationalist Basque Party (PNV) and is considered the representative of the party’s most hard-line wing.) How do you see the opposition? The opposition has made ”anti-Aznarism” into a pathological fixation. They compensate for their lack of ideological solidity with discourses on the evils of Aznar. In general the election campaign is taking place in a climate of radicalisation in which the other party is transformed not only into the adversary but the very negation of democracy. You hear comments like, ”We must defend democracy against the PP (Aznar’s Popular Party),” or ”Whoever says he’s voting for the PP is not a democrat.” What do you think about the main presidential candidates, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero (of the socialist party PSOE) and Mariano Rajoy (of the conservative PP)? I have had dealings with Zapatero and I think he is a serious and capable person. If only they were all like him in the party. But he suffers from the opposite problem of Aznar: he is indecisive; he prefers negotiation to confrontation; he is a man of the people. His party is turbulent and divided, and gives the impression that it is trying to smooth the waters for a last challenge. Zapatero would bring numerous valuable and important attributes to Spain, above all in the area of liberties, but the team of party leaders will thwart him. I know little about Rajoy. He is an intelligent person, with a sense of humour, who has had neither great successes not great defeats. I don’t agree with the way they are protecting him. He refused to participate in the televised debates because he has nothing to lose. But the debates should be a commitment to the country, not a right of the candidate. What will happen to Spain’s support for the ”war on terror”. This is doubly uncertain: it depends on both who wins the election in Spain and who will win in the US. If Bush and Rajoy both win, I assume things will continue as they are. But Aznar’s commitment to Bush is a very personal one. It is one thing to work together, and another altogether to show such enthusiasm. You would think that Bush began the war so he wouldn’t disappoint Aznar. This would not be the case with Rajoy. Do you think prospects for the Basque Country are better now? The ”Ibarretxe Plan” has not moved forward. The hope is that it will founder permanently in the Basque parliament and its support among the people will fade. A situation like this cannot continue for long. Certain groups are reacting. We hope that people will begin to exert pressure. With the ETA on its deathbed, with society demanding solutions and not mere plans, and with more moderate nationalist leaders, it is possible that we are beginning to change course. I say beginning because it isn’t like a train, which in five minutes can change direction completely; this is more like a heavy barge. (The plan to convert Basque autonomy into a ”community freely associated with the Spanish state” was presented by the Basque premier, Juan Jose Ibarretxe, and approved by the Basque government in October 2003.) In addition to the ”Ibarretxe plan” in Catalonia, the socialist-nationalist coalition government is demanding more autonomy, and Manuel Chaves, socialist leader of Andalusia, has stated he would like to renegotiate the terms of his region’s relations with Madrid. Other regions could follow. What sort of Spain do you see emerging? We will see whether what emerges is one or many Spains. There is no leadership at this time to prevent it from being cut into pieces. This balkanisation of the country is happening, moreover, at the worst time, namely the broadening of the European Union. (END/COPYRIGHT IPS)