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Q&A: 'China Is Capitalist, Not Communist'

Interview with Joan Hinton, physicist and Maoist

TOKYO , Aug 12 2008 (IPS) - As one of the nuclear physicists behind the Manhattan Project, Joan Hinton commands awe. But she chucked it all to go to China in 1948 and take part in the Communist Revolution. Now 86, she works on a dairy farm near Beijing, her sense of humour unaffected by a stroke suffered 10 years ago.

IPS Tokyo correspondent Catherine Makino caught up with Hinton, currently on a visit to Japan, the only country to have been hit by nuclear bombs. Characteristically irreverent, she said the human rights situation in China is now worse than under Chairman Mao Zedong and that she was ‘’glad to be away from Beijing during the Olympics.’’ But she had nothing to say about the excesses of Mao's 'Great Leap Forward' and the 'Cultural Revolution' in which millions were estimated to have perished.

IPS: Why did you move to China?

Joan Hinton: I decided I had to leave the United States, because my government made the decision to drop the nuclear bomb on Japan. I also wanted to find out how the Chinese communists defeated Japan and the Chinese Nationalists – who were supported by the U.S. – when all they had was millet and rifles. I spent the rest of my life there working on agricultural machinery to help people have a better life. People look the other way when I say I work in agriculture, but it is every bit as difficult as what I did before when I worked with a bunch of physicists.

IPS: Is China still a communist country?

JH: No, it’s capitalist with Chinese characteristics. After Mao died everything changed. It's not communist at all. People don't support the communist party like they used to. Now people just want to get rich. It started becoming capitalist with Deng Xiaoping’s economic reforms. He betrayed the socialist cause. It would have been terrific if Mao had lived.

There is a big difference between the poor and the rich, which is growing. The Chinese peasants are fighting back and there is a lot of disgruntlement… you don’t hear about it as it’s not in the newspapers. It’s sad, so you need to have a sense of history and humour.

IPS: Mao died in 1976. Are there still Maoists in China and do you view yourself as one?

JH: Yes, but most of them are in the countryside and they have pictures of Mao in their homes. I am still a Maoist… and was 100 percent behind the Cultural Revolution.

IPS: Do you think China has developed faster because of the reforms?

JH: No, it would have grown faster under Mao because he had the ability to mobilise the people to work. It would have been terrific if Mao had lived.

IPS: Do you think the West portrays Mao fairly?

JH: No, it’s propaganda. Mao was a terrific person… he liberated all the people and is not at all a monster. I have much respect for him.

IPS: As part of the Manhattan Project you witnessed the first nuclear explosion that took place in history?

JH: Yes, I saw the first test bomb go off in 1945 in New Mexico in the Jornada del Muerto (Journey of Death) desert. First, I felt the heat, then I felt like we were in a sea of light, then there was this awful purple glow that went up and up – it vaporised the clouds. It looked so beautiful. Then suddenly the sound reached us and went boom and rumbled back and forth.

It was right after Germany surrendered and the U.S. said it decided to use the bomb to save American lives… but it was really to keep the Soviet Union from coming into Japan.

IPS: Did you know that the bomb was going to be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

JH: No, we didn't think they would use it on people, we thought they were going to use it on an island to scare people. Two weeks later we saw a film of what happened in Japan.

IPS: What did you do after you quit the Manhattan Project?

JH: After that I went to Washington DC, the embassies and places fighting to save the world. They censored all my mail and everything else. At that time I realised there was no such thing as pure physics. It was like building a bike. Anybody can ride it, but you have to know where you are going. I learned from the experience.

IPS: How do you feel about China having nuclear weapons?

JH: At first, I was happy. Initially, the U.S. was the only country that had them. China had to get them to use as a deterrent. But now many countries have it and will use it. Israel has never admitted to having it. However, global warming is even worse; it may be the one to destroy us before nuclear weapons.

IPS: What are your thoughts about human rights in China?

JH: It’s pretty bad. People were able to talk more freely under Mao.