Q&A: “It’s the NGOs Who Provide the Figures, And They Lie”

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Interview with Mohammad Ali El Mardi * - IPS/InfoSud

GENEVA, Mar 16 2007 (IPS) - A report alleging rights abuses in the western Sudanese region of Darfur has sparked tensions in the United Nations Human Rights Council, currently in session in Geneva, Switzerland.

European states are amongst those pressing for implementation of the report, which was debated Friday. The document accuses Sudanese authorities, government-backed Arab militias known as the “janjaweed” (“men on horseback”), and rebels of abuses.

“With the emergence of armed rebellion in the region, and the recruitment by the Government of proxy militias to respond to the rebellion, civilians emerged as the primary targets and victims,” notes the report. It is widely estimated that about 200,000 people have been killed and over two million displaced by the conflict in Darfur, which got underway early 2003.

However, Sudan has dismissed the report, along with states from the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC). Both Khartoum and the OIC question the legitimacy of the document, which was produced outside Sudan by a fact-finding mission led by Nobel Peace Prize winner Jody Williams. This followed Sudan’s refusal of a visa to one of the team members – Bertrand Ramcharan, former acting U.N. High Commssioner for Human Rights.

InfoSud’s Michel Bührer interviewed Sudanese Justice Minister Mohammad Ali El Mardi Friday at the Human Rights Council about his country’s objections to the mission, agreed on in December by the U.N. agency.

Michel Bührer (MB): You have said that the mission charged with investigating the situation in Darfur was not credible because it never went to Sudan. But in refusing entry to one of the mission members, have you not damaged your own credibility?

Mohammad Ali El Mardi (MM): Not at all. That person (Ramacharan) expressed his views before the mission even began, condemning Sudan, which means he was already prejudiced.

MB: But he might have changed his mind once on the ground. A mission must be composed of experts, that don’t necessarily share the government’s view…

MM: No, this person had his mind made up before leaving, and he made it known.

MB: You have said the composition of the mission has been subjected to political pressure. Could you be more precise?

MM: Certain European countries put pressure on the choice of experts.

MB: Can you tell us which countries?

MM: Yes, the UK (United Kingdom) first of all, which led the campaign against us within the EU (European Union) – and I said this to the UK ambassador…

MB: The U.N. and international organisations in Darfur have given figures on the number of displaced and those killed that are much higher than yours. Can you explain this?

MM: They are giving biased information.

MB: Are you saying the U.N. is not telling the truth?

MM: No, it’s the NGOs (non-governmental organisations). The U.N. doesn’t have figures, it gets them from NGOs…Regarding displaced persons, yes, the figures are correct. But as for other victims, it’s the NGOs who provide the figures, and they lie.

MB: Why would they lie?

MM: They are in the pay of the West to provide false information.

The fact-finding mission has made several recommendations in its report, including the establishment of a “procedure or mechanism” to monitor human rights in Darfur, the creation of an independent human rights commission in Sudan – and full co-operation by Khartoum in the immediate deployment of a proposed United Nations and African Union peacekeeping force.

Sudan has also found itself in the crosshairs of the International Criminal Court (ICC), which recently named the first two suspects that it wishes to try in connection with war crimes in Darfur: Ahmad Muhammad Harun, interior minister when the violence in Darfur began, and Ali Muhammad Abd-Al-Rahman (known also as Ali Kosheib) – a janjaweed commander.

Speaking at a press conference in Geneva, Justice Minister El Mardi said Sudanese people would not be judged outside of Sudan, this in reference to the ICC’s attempt to bring Harun and Abd-Al-Rahman to book.

* Michel Bührer is a journalist at InfoSud, a news agency based in Geneva. This article is being published by IPS in terms of an agreement between the agency and InfoSud.